This week, I’m joined by Victor Arteaga. As a first generation Latino-American, Victor brings a unique spin to his works of science fiction and fantasy.
Content Notice: This episode contains some discussion of addiction/alcoholism, racial stereotypes/discrimination, and mild language.
Music: Harlequin by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3858-harlequin
License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Show Notes:
Twitter: @bloodmoontrio Website: welcometogalilei.com Patreon Page: patreon.com/bloodmoontrilogy
Pacific Northwest Writing Association
Outlander
Editorial Freelancers Association’s rates chart: https://www.the-efa.org/rates/
Brandon Sanderson
Writing Excuses podcast
Show versus Tell
Liza Arteaga, The Silver Wall
NaNoWriMo
Transcript:
Ariel: Hi there, and welcome to Edit Your Darlings, a podcast that tries to take the sting out of editing by talking with darling authors about their experiences. Ariel: This week, I’m joined by Victor Arteaga. As a first generation Latino-American, Victor brings a unique spin to his works of Science-Fiction and Fantasy. His love for the genre bloomed early and voraciously, but his path as an author didn't start until his late twenties. His journey through addiction recovery catalyzed his imagination and drive to create thriving worlds, enchanting magic and flawed, multi-dimensional characters. Book One in his Blood Moon Saga, Unrest, is published by The Wild Rose Press and available now! Thank you so much for making time to talk with me, Victor.
Victor: It's my pleasure.
Ariel: I want to start with a big picture question. You've worked with both freelance and in-house developmental editors. Can you talk about those experiences? How was the process different each time and which one was more rewarding for you?
Victor: The major differences are that the in-house editors that I've worked with, she's very stringent about a lot of things and very easily and readily handed me resources to use to correct some of my bigger writing errors like passive writing and things of that nature. Where my experience with hiring an independent editor was much more lax. There was mostly kind of line editing kind of things, not a whole lot of developmental and how to correct certain things, just kind of like, she pointed out, oh, well, this doesn't make any sense here. And this doesn't flow right here. And it was good. It just wasn't as detailed and thorough as the other editor I had working with my publisher. So they were rewarding in very different ways. With the freelance editor, I had a lot more freedom to really express, you know, how I came up with certain things or my thought processes for the way that I wrote something down. With the in-house editor, they have their own guidelines to follow. So it's a little bit more restrictive, in, you know, the kind of things that they're going to let slide. But on the other hand, I learned a lot from the in-house developmental editor, just... just from the sheer amount of resources she threw at me when we were going through my manuscript. When I did hire an editor myself, that was for a short story, and not for a novel, so the experiences were very different.
Ariel: Yeah. And you would have to imagine that an in-house editor, not only do they have those internal policies that they're required to follow, but they've also got a little bit more skin in the game.
Victor: Maybe. An in-house editor would probably feel a little bit more secure in their work because they are contracted to work with them. Whereas opposed, I think, a freelance editor, the skin in the game is their entire business, right. I'm also a self-employed massage therapist. So like, I run my own business. So I understand the differences between being employed and then being on your own and trying to make it work that way. Right. So I would actually think that it's a little bit flipped, I think what happens with in-house editors is that there's a little bit more risk in what they will allow to get published. And so that's where their skin is.
Ariel: How did you choose the editors that you worked with? So when you were working with the in-house editor, you didn't have a choice, right?
Victor: Sort of, actually. So with my in-house editor, I actually pitched to that editor. When I chose who I was going to pitch to, I was essentially pitching to an editor to take me on.
Ariel: So that was also an acquisitions editor, not just a developmental editor.
Victor: Exactly, yes. And I didn't actually think I was going to work with her. But she actually went to bat hardcore for me with the publisher to even take me on. So like she, she took the reins really seriously when, when we started working together.
Ariel: And how did you choose her?
Victor: She was one of the few editors available at the Pacific Northwest Writing Association’s conference that was actively looking for sci fi and fantasy. So when I was looking through the list of editors and agents to pitch to there was only really two editors or agents that I thought would even take a look at my manuscript. So that was how I chose her. And I only pitched to those two people. And that was it. And then with the independent editor, I actually, I hired her off of a recommendation. And I should have been a little bit more picky, I think, because she didn't have a whole lot of experience with science fiction. And so even though it was a short story, it was a genre she was unfamiliar with. So I wound up having to do a little bit more explanation with the themes and things that were happening, and so on and so forth. And then all the other kind of like unofficial editors that I have, kind of brought on not necessarily paid, but people that I trust, that have a good eye for detail, and English and stuff like that are just kind of friends that are also enjoy the genre, and they're good at giving me critical feedback.
Ariel: Yeah. And it's really important to find an editor who understands your genre, because there's going to be tropes and there's going to be conventions. I think editing sci fi versus editing memoir is so different,
Victor: Oh, drastically.
Ariel: Your characters are multilingual. So you said that you looked for an editor who is good with English, but then you also have Spanish and even a little bit of like Scottish dialect. Did you work with multilingual editors? Or did you trust your own proofreading?
Victor: No, I had no multilingual editors, unfortunately. Spanish is my first language. I just kind of relied on my own knowledge of Spanish to write a lot of it. I don't put too much Spanish in it, because sadly, my forte is not in the grammar of Spanish. My mom teaches Spanish though, so whenever I ran into a problem, I would just kind of like bounce this off of her. And my dad also, you know, is Peruvian. So like, I would bounce it off of him. With the rest of it. I tried to find people that spoke these languages, and then asked them if this was correct. And then that was it. And then the formatting for Spanish was a tricky one for both me and my editor, because we weren't really sure whether we should use Spanish formatting, or if we should use English format. So we wound up going with just keeping things English, right, like in Spanish, if you have a question, you put the question mark first, but we didn't do that in my manuscript, because that's not what you do in English. So with the Scottish, I would just kind of do some, a lot of research actually as to, you know, what people actually say and then try and do as much research with actual like Scottish people speaking or interviewing or even just like YouTube videos on Scottish people, stuff like I did as much research as I could, because I don't personally know that many Scottish people. So I kept that down to a minimum mostly just to keep, you know, a little bit of slang so that it feels a little bit more natural, but I'm not out here trying to teach people how to speak it.
Ariel: Okay, be honest. Did you watch Outlander and steal some dialect?
Victor: No. I tried watching Outlander. No. Mostly Scottish standup actually.
Ariel: I know Outlander’s not for everybody.
Victor: I, yeah, I tried to watch it. It's not my genre. I was intrigued by the time travel aspect of it.
Ariel: But that's not very strong.
Victor: No, it's really not.
Ariel: Yeah, it has some really problematic stuff in there. So I like, had to have somebody holding my hand as I watched it, but all the good stuff was really good.
Victor: Oh, well, now I’m curious. What's the problematic stuff?
Ariel: Yeah, sexual assault is a recurring plot point. And I can't deal with that.
Victor: I actually make it a point not to put that in any of my work.
Ariel: Or if you do, like, add trigger warnings for your editors. Anybody who is writing hard content like that, warn your editor!
Victor: Yes. 100%.
Ariel: I've worked with authors in translation. And one of them was a bestseller in Spain. And I had a hard time trying to copy edit all of those phrases that I don't understand, little grammar things, the enyays, the... all of the little accents that are so important to get right. Because as soon as you get one wrong, somebody who's actually fluent in that language is going to know that it's not authentic. So I just love that you reach out to your parents and use them as a resource. That is fabulous.
Victor: I am very much one of those people that I'm just like, Okay, what, who can I talk to for free that will help me for this?
Ariel: Ah, yeah.
Victor: And my, you know, my mom, like I said, she taught Spanish at high school levels. So she's also like one of the smartest people I know. So whenever I have a problem with Spanish, I'll reach out to her. And then if I have like a particular Peruvian quirk, because my mom is from Nicaragua, my dad will fill me in on, on whether or not that's something that someone would say. So you'll find a lot of phrases in Unrest and this whole saga really, that has a lot of Peruvian traces in it.
Ariel: Let's talk about Alessandra, because you write these flawed, multidimensional characters, and your protagonist certainly fits that description. She's this badass werewolf fighter who struggles with a drinking problem. And her main relationship in the book starts as this tawdry, one-night stand that leaves her partner Jen feeling... we'll call it jaded.
Victor: That's a good word.
Ariel: So in these characters, I see that you've written a little bit of yourself from within your own experiences. But you've also written these lives that you could only imagine, right? You say that you're a cis male, that you are not, you know, a lesbian or a werewolf. So what sort of feedback did you get on the early drafts of these characters? You know, did you work with sensitivity readers or other people in the LGBTQ community to be sure you've got those aspects right? How did your editors help shape those characters?
Victor: Well, by the time this book made it to my editor, I had gone through pretty much every queer friend that I know. My wife is also queer. So she helps me a lot with, with these issues that I would have, like, would arise and be like, okay, like this? Is this okay? But can I write this situation this way? Is this believable? And then I bounce it off of her, and then I have a couple of other friends who are in lesbian relationships. And then I'd give them the stories and I'd have them read it, and then they would get back to me with whether or not, you know that, that, that was a good representation, or at the very least, not harmful, right?
Ariel: Yeah.
Victor: And then I would just kind of work from there. And then I would, I would try and merge my experiences, being Latino, and kind of a marginalized person, and all of that discrimination that I have felt on that side of things, and then try and round it out and connect it with the queer side of the spectrum. In that sense, I put a lot of work into trying to make sure that I got it right. There's always room for improvement. I didn't have specific sensitivity readers. So on that front, I probably could have done better. And moving forward, I will do so. The first editor who I hired, she did not understand. We’ll say that she was a little bit more on the conservative side of things. So writing queer characters was not something that she was really terribly comfortable with editing. And then with my developmental editor, she didn't bring it up at all. So like, it really was completely on me to make sure that I got this right. And I did my best to try and come at the story as not so much of writing about the experience of being queer. But more of like, this is a story with queer characters. And then we're going to focus on the people and not... not at all about their sexuality.
Ariel: Oh, I love it. I love it. I'm gonna snip that. I'll just I'll keep that in my heart forever.
Victor: Because as a Latino person, like, it drives me crazy when I see, you know, movies or TV shows where the Latino person is either like a gangbanger or reformed prisoner, or, you know, the guy who mows the lawns, and they always have like the super stereotypical... so it bothers me, right? And there's so little wiggle room when it comes to these things. So as I imagined it is for people of the queer community to see most of the characters, people that resemble them.
Ariel: And you do have a couple of... not gangbangers, but former gang members, cartel members, but you also balance that out with people in power, or people who care about making their community better. And so I think that you struck a really good balance there.
Victor: I've really, really tried to actually write because people stereotypes exist for a reason. But they don't have to be the prevailing narrative. Yeah, yeah. I like to take these things and then just kind of be like, yeah, okay, these people do exist. But there's a whole other world that you guys are missing. And this is what that looks like. So that's why I made it a point, almost instinctively, to make sure that this cast was really diverse in as many ways as I could get it. Right. So that's why you have the Ojibwe public defender who's trying to make this new city what it could be, right. And that's why I have a Latina protagonist, who is, yeah, she was part of like this criminal syndicate, but she's also deeply flawed and caring person who actually cares about people. So it was a lot of work. That’s why it took me four years to write this book.
Ariel: You say that like four years is, you know, such a long time, which in some ways it is, but also like, this is part of your life's work. Right? So four years, it's just a drop.
Victor: Yeah. In the grand scheme of things, it is.
Ariel: Did you get any pushback on the depictions of alcoholism? Because it's such an integral part of your protagonist? It comes up quite a lot throughout the book. Did your editor try to shape that at all? Or ask you to bring it out or push it back down?
Victor: No, actually, my editor just kind of gave me free rein. I feel of all the things that happen within that book an with my characters, alcoholism is the one that I am the most qualified to talk about, just having been through my own experiences with it. I also kind of made it a point early on, to really convey the fact that this isn't going to be a book that glorifies alcoholism, like you see with other kinds of shows like Sherlock Holmes, where, yes, he's this brilliant addict person. And then this is just kind of like that level that gives him more of a mythos. And no. The truth of alcoholism is very dark and boring. And it is a pervasive thing, right? In my book, I pepper it in, because the truth is the experience of alcoholism. It really does infiltrate every aspect and you do a lot more sleeping than most people realize. Right? So. Yeah, I wanted to really be a central part of it, because I wanted to take away the glory that that attends to get and most popular media. Knowing that moving forward, my editor really just kind of was like, Okay, well, let's just leave it the way that it is because you would know more than I. Most of the pushback that I got was actually from beta readers, who were just kind of like, is this really necessary, to have this much in here? She drinks a lot. And I'm like, yeah, alcoholics drink a lot. And the truth of it is, I had one person who told me, you know, just the amount is astonishing. like can you tone that down and I go, No, because I didn't embellish rushing, can you tone that down? And I go, No, because I didn't embellish the amount. This is how much I used to drink. Like, in fact, I probably cut down on the amount of alcohol in this book. It was kind of nice that I was really allowed to tell that part of it without any shackles.
Ariel: Yeah. When it's authentic, it doesn't need a lot of editing. Well, let's switch gears and talk about you indicated that you haven't worked with professional copyeditors or proof reader. So how did you make the decision to skip that step in the editing process, and how did you make sure your work was polished enough to publish?
Victor: Well, the decision was really easy: I can’t afford it. You know when I was working on the manuscript, I would look at quotes for, oh how much we would edit for this. And the book I think at time was something like 80,000 words. So it would have wound up being a few hundred dollars .The editor that I got for my short story, You know, that was, she charged me $400 I think for a 2200 word short story. And so I was like okay, well if that's how much that costs, you know, I asked her how much she would charge to do a full book, and she was like it would be about like $30,000 and I was like, No.
Ariel: What? No! Three-Zero-Thousand?
[the no’s go back and forth for a bit]
Ariel: Quick aside: For an idea of more accurate rates, I recommend looking at the Editorial Freelancers Association’s rate chart, which is available on their website and reflects the median rates for EFA members. It’s regularly updated and is going to give you a better idea of what’s reasonable and fair. Okay, back to Victor.
Victor: No! I... after that I was just kind of like okay Well, I'm just going to list into our lot of writing podcast on how to write And we'll go from there. And then of course, my wife has an English degree so she helped me a lot with proofreading. I really did outsource most of my proofreading and copy editing to just people that I know I have a friend of mine. She is very, very happy to do just like a quick reading and pick out, you know, typos and grammatical errors or something like that, you know, it works out really quite well. By the time I sent this manuscript off to the editor, ironically, it still needed to work before they could even consider it for a contract, right, so they had their in-house reader go through my manuscript and then fill out a form and they sent it to me and they were like, okay, these are things you need to fix. Do that and send the back. Okay, I did that. And then they again, they would just give me a bunch of give me a bunch of resources like, this is how you don't do passive writing. And then I would go do that and then I sent it back and then their reader went over again. said it's better but there's still this. He talks too much about setting. So, I was like, Okay, well and then I did it one more time and then I sent it to them. And then when they said they finally got the contract, they're like okay, do another self-editing pass. So like this book literally went through maybe I think about 14 full revisions before it hit publication. It wasn't nuts. Before I had the in-house editor, I did a lot of the work on my own. If I’d had the funds to hire a copy editor or proofreader or if I had a more accurate depiction or idea of what that would cost because I know now that price that she gave me was it please don't hire me price, right? But now that I know having seen what... My wife does some freelancing stuff, so what she charges, and then what other people on Twitter have been saying that they would charge for these edits, I was like, oh, okay, well, that's a lot more feasible but, you know, I've got these resources. I'm just going to use it and try and improve as best I can.
Ariel: Yeah. So I have two follow up questions. Most people believe that the publisher will pay for copy editing and proofreading. That wasn't the case in your contract?
Victor: I think my publisher wanted to streamline the editing process on their end as much as they could, because one editor works on multiple projects at the same time. So after I finally got contracted and I did all my of own self-edits and then sent it back to them, that was when then we started going through their process. The editor is paid by the publisher and they work with me. We go back and forth a few times. If you get contracted by a publisher, the editor will, will do their job and you don’t have to pay them.
Ariel: But they didn't have you go through a copy editor proofreader with them in house?
Victor: No I mean, I guess? I... I would assume that the person that I worked with just kind of was their catch-all. So it was that one person that did everything, like she was, she was the one who pointed out the typos and, you know, grammar structure, developmental stuff, all these things and so she just kind of did everything.
Ariel: Ooh, bless her! That is a lot of work
Victor: It would probably be different based on what—who your publisher is. Who you are, right? Because other big names—People like Brandon Sanderson, for example, He has a team of editors working through his stuff because A) his books are 400,000 words. I am not that big of a name yet, but maybe.
Ariel: Yeah. And then as I was reading Unrest, I highlighted the phrase “How could people be so wealthy that the base option isn't even a consideration?” And that was Aless’s experience with this high-class taxi, and it made me think about the way that privilege pays into the editing process because so many people will tell you that you absolutely have to shell out for an editor and a copy editor and a proofreader and a book designer. You know, the more that you do on the— on your own, the less worthy your book is. And while it's true that you do need as many eyes as possible on your manuscript and that I think freelance copy editing and proofreading is worth the investment, I wondered how authors can afford editing and who gets left out because of it?
Victor: Oh, I guess it depends on what you want to do with your book. If you want to get it through to a publisher to take the reigns over all of these things, then you do kind of have to shell out at least a little bit. A lot of editors and agents won't take unedited work. And so if you're some who's writing, you know, between raising three kids, working a job, paying your bills and then you've only got really time for an hour to spread out through, you know, a week to even just get the word It's down, that really leaves out a huge amount of people. It felt at times for me especially early on that, of course I could, you know, break the Amazon algorithms for getting my book noticed and things of that nature, but I mean even that costs money too. So that's why publishers are a thing where they take that that expense off of you. But with the rise of self-publishing, I feel like it really just kind of created another layer of pay to win because if you do edit yourself, you do manage to play the data algorithms to your benefit, you're only one person who can't catch everything. So if you publish something that hasn't—that has good bones but it hasn't been able to be edited well either by yourself because you don't have time or because you don't have the money to pay for an editor, then you're gonna get raked over the coals in the comments, right. And so all Those ratings are just going to tank you, it's gonna be really disheartening. So I think on top of just creating a financial ceiling that you have to break through, it also creates almost like an emotional ceiling, right? People I feel tend to be pretty harsh when it comes to reading published works and especially with indie authors. I mean the amount of people that get discouraged That I have seen on just on Twitter talking about the reviews that they've gotten for their books that they, they were really proud of, now have given up writing because of all that negative feedback, I feel isn't talked about enough. So who gets left out of it? So many people! You know, you kind of get stuck into this loop of capitalism, of the editor needs to make money. You need to pay for this so that you can make money. But if you don't have the money, then the editor doesn't get paid. So they can't do the work, and it's just kind of like this perpetuating cycle. Yeah, it's a really unfortunate situation. I got lucky. I have a lot of privilege in that my wife could afford a college education so she could help me a lot. At the time that I hired the Independent editor, I was working pretty well and I could afford the $400 to edit a short story, which seems ludicrous to me now that I think about it.
Ariel: That is ludicrous!
Victor: She initially wanted to charge me 600 for a 2500 word story. It’s not happening!
Ariel: Oh no! Uh-uh! Can we talk some more about your wife?
Victor: Ok.
Ariel: I love hearing about writing couples and you've mentioned her a few times already and she seems like a total sweetheart. And you mentioned that she edits all of your short fiction. So how was it to build that side of your relationship that you were willing to trust her with your work? How do you know that she’s a good editor? And how do you handle... disagreements?
Victor: Hmm. So we both struggled with alcoholism. And so when I got sober she got sober shortly after and then we went to therapy, which I think is instrumental in the way that we are able to make this kind of relationship work. And I have always been a person who recognizes her ability with the English language in general, like, I've read some of her first drafts and I'm just like, Okay, this is like if I had edited this five times, like how do you do this right off the bat? Anyway, so we've learned to compartmentalize professional and personal. It's interesting that you mentioned the word trust with work. Because trust to me is an integral part of a relationship. So, because I trust her as my partner, of course I'm going to trust her with my work right? I can trust that she's going to look at this dispassionately as a professional person because A) she's just professional in general, and she's going to come It was all the things that she's learned and then her entire goal, which every editor’s goal, by the way, is to make the work better. So if you don’t listen to your editor, your work is not gonna be as good as it could be. Doesn’t mean they're always gonna be right, but...
Ariel: Yeah.
Victor: Which leads me into the next point of how do we handle disagreements. I mean, the way you would with any editor, really. She makes a comment on the manuscript. She writes, I don't know about this, can you choose something else and then more often than not, our disagreements are, Okay, maybe I don't use this word here or maybe this event happened too early so I'll push it back, that kind of thing. So it really is more of a collaborative thing, right? We don't I wouldn't really call it a disagreement as it is just an edit. Right? And more often than not, and this just winds up being the process with editors in general, is she'll point something out. And then I think, I don't agree with this. But it's a good point. And it applies to the earlier section. So I'll take that idea and then apply it earlier. And then that's it. Right? I don't have to tell her, you're wrong. Because her philosophy of editing is, I'm going to make these edits, I'm going to make these suggestions, take it or leave it.
Ariel: Yeah.
Victor: Also, setting aside ego, right. A) if you approach your relationship based on ego, it's really going to go poorly for you. So having learned how to do that earlier on in our relationship has allowed me to do that now with our professional relationship, you know, it just works out really nicely. I should pay her.
Ariel: I love what you said about taking a suggestion and kind of learning from it. That's such a smart way to approach an editor's comments, because editors are founts of knowledge, but you might not always agree with them in the moment. But every time that you're edited, you should be learning from the comments that are coming your way.
Victor: Yes, 100%. That's, that's the whole point of editing, I think. Approaching editing in this fashion, I always attribute to the growth mindset, right. And that is just having this idea that you should be learning from as much of your experiences as you can. And getting edited is an experience. First time I got, oh, my God, I had such a hard time getting over myself. Because I thought, ah well, this person doesn't know science fiction. So how could she possibly... and then I would just kind of have to remember—and this was the early parts of rehab so I was still working on this— to take a step back, and then ask if I'm, if I'm responding logically, or at least appropriately to this. Right. And can I learn from it? Yeah. And the truth was nine times out, and yeah, yeah, I could and so I just be like, Well, okay, fine, she’s right. I don’t like it. So I'm just going to kind of do it the way that she'd asked, but I'm gonna... still gonna be my way. Which is fine. Right?
Ariel: Yeah.
Victor: And that was, I think, the really, really important parts of being edited with my publisher in house was that, man, talk about a learning experience. She ripped my manuscript apart.
Ariel: Oh no!
Victor: I had already gone through it, like eight or seven, seven or eight times by that point. I could have had that manuscript memorized by the time that I sent it to her. And then that first time I got it back, man, there was so much red. I feel like she was very, very polite, politely telling me, Victor, please stop. Please read these articles. Please learn these things because you're making my job a little bit hard right now. And I would really very much appreciate it if you could... And now, you know, four years later, from starting the book, a few months after publication, I take a lot of those lessons. And I implement them now, which has done two things. One, it's made my first drafts better, but also slower, right? Because I'm a little more careful with the words that I put down at first. So before I even get the words on the page, I try and eliminate that step of editing because my editors have been pounding it into my head.
Ariel: So let's transition to the questions I ask every author that I talk to. What do you hate about the editing process?
Victor: Oh gosh, the tedium. I don't mind getting edited, right? I don't mind when I get feedback on something anymore. It used to rankle my feathers because again, I was leading with ego. So now what drives me crazy is the tedium of having to reread the same thing over and over. And it's just like, Okay, I got to go through this one more time. Okay, I've read this sentence seven times in the last 25 minutes. Can I just move on? Or the Ctrl F function in Word is my worst enemy because I have to find all the words that I've repeated and then I have to go, you know, line by line and then just be like, ach, okay, I used the word, we’ll just say I'll use the word looks 700 times in this manuscript. Great, now I have to find another way of doing this. And it's that tedium of approaching every single instance of that word all over and then starting the process all over again.
Ariel: And it's not just that word. It’s all the synonyms. Looked and glanced and, you know, peaked.
Victor: Stared! I remember listening to this episode of Writing Excuses. One of the authors was talking about, people do things other than look at other people. Please give me something else. Give me a knuckle, give me a foot, give me something other than eyes. I hear that voice in my head over and over again when I'm trying to write, and still, like even just with my story fiction I'm just like ah, she looked at him five times in 1000 words. I have to redo this whole thing.
Ariel: She raised her eyebrows. She raised her other eyebrow. She raised both eyebrows at once.
Victor: Exactly! Yeah. She rolled her eyes, right? My characters do a lot of eye rolling
Ariel: As they should. What's the most common bit of feedback you receive on your writing? I feel like you've already answered this one.
Victor: I have, yes: passive writing! It is my kryptonite. For as visual a way that I write, I tend to write certain things in a very tell way versus show way. My wife nails me for it all the time. My editor for this book, the same links that she would post, like every single time she sent me back the manuscript, was just like how to avoid passive writing. So yeah.
Ariel: Do you have any last words of advice when it comes to editing?
Victor: When it comes to editing, please listen to your editor. Be picky about who you hire as an editor, if you're going independent. Make sure that the person that you are going to give money to is going to have your best interests at heart and is also going to understand the message that you're trying to deliver. Number two, and I didn't talk about this before, is be upfront with what you're trying to accomplish with your work. I think most people might hesitate on that, because they don't want to give a plot point away or they don't want to give away the main theme because they want it to be a bit more Mercurial or a surprise to some people. Don't do that. The more your editor knows what you're trying to accomplish, the better that they're going to help you get to that end point. So yeah, don't be shy about telling your editor what you're trying to do, unless they ask you to stop.
Ariel: Yeah, I have rarely encountered a good surprise in any of the manuscript edited. If there's going to be a surprise, it's probably... nnnggg...
Victor: And then another bit, I would say, really, we should spend more time talking about editors in general. A lot of the big names will praise editors, till Kingdom Come. Appreciate your editors. Understand that they're trying to help you, that not only that, that most editors, especially if you give them something in the genre that they enjoy reading, are going to get invested in your work. That's been my experience. Anyway, with, with my editor for this book. She really loved the story. She was all in on making sure that people's eyes got on to this book. And so during the editing process, you know, it was very different than when I work with another editor because the other editor she was involved in so far as I had paid her to do the work, but she didn't connect with the story. So there's very palpable differences between the way that they approached the words.
Ariel: So the last portion of our program is a hot and wholesome gossip corner. Are there any writers or creators doing something you're excited about, or any shoutouts you want to give or people you want to lift up?
Victor: Well! Can I talk about my wife more?
Ariel: Yeah, please do!
Victor: So my wife just put out a book called The Silver Wall, and it is such a fun read. I'm really excited about it because it's just kind of... We both have this knack for taking tropes and twisting them just a little bit, and my wife is much better at writing twists than I am. Shout out to my wife Liza Arteaga (she goes by Arteaga in the literary world), and her book The Silver Wall. It's about a teenage girl who can be possessed and control demons, and then they also simultaneously go out and fight them to make sure that they don't breach the last defense of the human city. It's fantastic. It's super fun.
Ariel: That sounds amazing.
Victor: Yeah, it’s really good. And she's also working on another project for NaNo where she's writing a fantasy, action, comedy, where she takes a lot of RPG video game tropes, and then turns them into a fantasy story. It's fantastic.
Ariel: Oh man, I know so many people who would love that. All right. You can follow Victor on Twitter as @bloodmoontrio, and be sure to check his Patreon. Thank you again for talking with me Victor! This has been amazing.
Victor: It's been really fun. Thanks for having me on.